Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings expressed in a recent interview

Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings.
The following was my most gratifying interview (on March 18, 2017) because I could very comfortably express my true inner feelings on all these topics….because of the truly laid-back atmosphere created by the excellent host Michael with his truly soothing voice:

(QUOTE from Michael Decon)

EPISODE 25 – – The “Land of Enchantment”:

Tonight’s guest is Norio Hayakawa who has spent decades investigating Area 51 and UFOs.
One of his main focuses has been on the alleged secret base in Dulce, New Mexico, as well as cattle mutilations in that area.
In 1990, he created the Civilian Intelligence News Service which he calls “a citizens’ oversight committee on government accountability, a grassroots watchdog group established to help ensure liberty, justice and freedom of information for all.”

Michael thanks everyone for taking the red pill tonight and reminds everyone that this is a call-in show.

Norio joins the program and right away informs us that on April 18, 2017 he’ll be giving a 90-minute presentation in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, titled “Area 51 in Nevada and Dulce, New MexicoReality vs. Myths“.

You can check it out here:

When Michael asks Norio to give us a little background about himself, Norio says that isn’t important.
He says people’s descriptions of him are inaccurate.
He says he’s the last person to say he’s an expert in this field.

Norio’s interest in this subject stems from his father seeing a green ball of fire in the sky while fishing in Japan in 1947.
This experience had a deep impact on him.
Norio says that he too has seen what he calls “unexplainable lights” in the sky (which he admits could even have prosaic explanations) but cautions us that he’s primarily a strong believer in physical reality, without closing the door to “other” realities (such as possible paraphysical phenomena).
He explains he was influenced by the late Carl Sagan, especially his last book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Norio claims, “We are living in a society of darkness,” to which Michael agrees.

After the obligatory discussion about the futility of disclosure, talk turns to myths and beliefs and religion.
Norio tells us that years ago he was into something called Charismatic Renewal, or the Charismatic Movement.
But then in the late 1970s, he began to devour books by Jacques Vallee and John A. Keel , which changed his view of the UFO phenomenon.

The topic of UFO conferences comes up.
Norio sees them mainly as entertainment.
He calls it “the UFO industry.”
He categorizes it as a show.  There’s nothing scientific about them, for the most part.

Michael asks Norio his thoughts on the Phoenix Lights incident.

Norio bases everything on hard, tangible, solid evidence, and he sees no proof that UFOs are physical (or that they represent conclusive evidence of physical ET visitations).
He says Vallee did not like to say that UFO phenomena were exclusively real, they just *seem* to be real.
That’s how Norio feels too.
He reminds us that it’s been going on for ages, yet there’s no conclusive physical proof  (that it represents physical ET visitations).
He says UFOs could be part of nonphysical “reality”.
Carl Sagan, however, warned us that our beliefs in myths have undermined America’s true pursuit of science.

He’s been to Dulce many times and he’s yet to see evidence of an underground base.
He reminds us that people survive on myths and beliefs.  Yet, we must not close the door to the possibility that there could be other “realities” that co-exist with us, even in areas such as Dulce.

He now lives near Albuquerque, having relocated from Los Angeles.
He tells us that New Mexico has the highest number of scientists per population of anywhere in the United States.
It’s the fifth largest state but the population is only two million, which provides lots of room to conduct military tests.
It’s the site of the first atomic test in the world and White Sands Missile Range.
He also mentions the paranormal beliefs of the Native Americans in the area.

Norio says that religious people tend to believe in the paranormal and scientific people believe in the physical reality of things.

Talk then turns to abductions and cattle mutilations, which has Norio delving into the psychological aspect of the phenomena.   To the “experiencer” abductions are absolutely real.
But until there’s tangible physical evidence, they’re just stories to most people.

Michael’s question about cattle mutilations causes Norio to bring up 1967’s Operation Plowshare (Project Gasbuggy) possibly interfering with (imagined notions and allegations of) the “alien” presence in Dulce.
He says Dulce may not be about aliens, it’s about a health issue.
He explains how it has affected people and animals and its devastating impact on the environment.

Norio’s website is
There you’ll find (interesting items, including) photos of the “moonscape” areas, around 20 miles from his home in Rio Rancho.
He tells us that New Mexico truly is the “Land of Enchantment” and invites Michael to visit and see for himself.

Michael then asks Norio his opinion on Paul Bennewitz, Richard Doty, Phil Schneider, Bob Lazar, John Lear, Bill Cooper, and Hillary Clinton.


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2 thoughts on “Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings expressed in a recent interview

  1. Great interview. I struggle to understand if intrusions into our atmosphere, which I witnessed twice: In 2013 in Three Points AZ with a family I was working with and another incident with a coworker in 2014, are of a spiritual or technological origin. My biblical teachings do not address whether or not other beings exist outside our world, but it does speak of demonic influence, but how then does that explain the witnesses I was with also observing the phenomenon if they for example have no spiritual beliefs ? I absolutely shun occultism, so why did I observe five orbs and later the next year a triangle light formation that blinked off (appeared to be star-like, at first) ? Either way, the scriptures speak of Gods’ plan for mankind with exclusivity, so for me, the potential for coexistence of extra terrestrial life is irrelevant and I personally don’t feel it can or will change the destiny of this world given my beliefs, but the reality of the mysteries can’t be denied m. I used to think every credible sighting was earthly technology, now I’m not so sure we should give ourselves that much credit, given the weirdness of what people have seen.


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