My recollection of Ted Gunderson, former FBI Special Agent-in-charge of Los Angeles

Although I am skeptical of global conspiracy theories, I respected the late Ted Gunderson, former FBI Special Agent-in-charge of Los Angeles.

On August 1, 2011, the day after he passed away, I wrote the following condolences:

Friend and colleague, Ted Gunderson, has passed away!!

August 1, 2011
by Norio Hayakawa

With much sadness I have to inform everyone that Ted Gunderson, friend and colleague of the Civilian Intelligence Network, has lost his battle with cancer and has passed away on July 31, 2011.

Ted Gunderson was one of the finest, most noble Americans we have ever known.
May his soul rest in peace.
God bless Ted Gunderson for his 30 years of exposing outrageous government crime and corruption.

Those of us who knew Ted sorely miss his big smile, radiant personality and patriotic dedication to truth, justice and preserving the American way of life.

I first met Ted in 1992 in Arcadia, California, in a conference which Gary Schultz and I organized that exposed the dark side of the Wackenhut Corporation.

I also heard him speak at a 1995 Patriot/Militia conference held in Palm Springs, after the Oklahoma City bombing incident.

It was Ted Gunderson who inspired me to get involved with the Patriot/Militia movement in 1995.

Ted Gunderson investigated the 1992 Ruby Ridge incident, the 1993 Waco incident, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing incident, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing incident and countless number of covered-up incidents, not to mention the 9/11 incident of 2001.

My friend, Anthony J. Hilder, knew Ted Gunderson very well.
He and Ted did lots of conferences together.
Ted Gunderson also spoke at many conferences where I was also a speaker.

Ted Gunderson participated in our 1999 People’s Rally at Area 51 to protest the government’s environmental infractions at the site as well as to support the workers’ rights for health compensation resulting from sickness caused by the use of hazardous, toxic chemicals:

I can state that the Ted Gunderson that I personally knew was one of the kindest, gentlest persons that I have ever come to know.
He was a gentleman and a scholar in the truest sense of the word.
He will always remain our hero.

Here is a classic clip from Ted Gunderson:

Here is another classic clip from Ted Gunderson:

For more Reflections on Ted Gunderson, please go to:

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1947 – – birth of the Roswell “alien saucer crash” myth that eventually helped promote the UFO Industry



Associated Press newswire, July 9, 1947 – – also from THE ROSWELL DAILY RECORD:


W. W. Brazel, 48, Lincoln county rancher living 30 miles south of Corona, today told his story of finding what the army at first described as a flying disk, but the publicity which attended his find caused him to add that if he ever found anything else short of a bomb, he sure wasn’t going to say anything about it.

Brazel was brought here late yesterday by W. E. Whitmore, of radio station KGFL, had his picture taken and gave an interview to the Record and Jason Kellahin, sent here from the Albuquerque bureau of the Associated Press to cover the story. The picture he posed for was sent out over AP telephoto wire sending machine specially set up in the Record office by R. D. Adair, AP wire chief sent here from Albuquerque for the sole purpose of getting out his picture and that of sheriff George Wilcox, to whom Brazel originally gave the information of his find.

Brazel related that on June 14 he and an 8-year old son, Vernon, were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J. B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

At the time Brazel was in a hurry to get his round made and he did not pay much attention to it. But he did remark about what he had seen and on July 4 he, his wife, Vernon and a daughter, Betty, age 14, went back to the spot and gathered up quite a bit of the debris.
The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.

Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see sheriff George Wilcox and “whispered kinda confidential like” that he might have found a flying disk.
Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home, where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the “disk” and went to his home to try to reconstruct it.

Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.
There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.


DENVER – UNDATED: Major Jesse Marcel from the Roswell Army Air Field with debris found 75 miles north west of Roswell, NM, in June 1947. The debris has been identified as that of a radar target. The Air Force released a report on 24 June debunking reports of a UFO crash near Roswell, NM, in 1947. (Photo by: UNITED STATES AIR FORCE/AFP/Getty Images)

(ABOVE PHOTO – – quote from Jesse Marcel: “The stuff in that photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo“)


(courtesy of Kal K. Korff):

Project Mogul was a super-secret operation in 1947 that involved the use of constant-level balloon trains that were equipped with various instruments for intelligence gathering purposes. Constant level balloon trains are clusters of balloons that are balanced so that they can float at a fairly consistent altitude and not continually rise up into the atmosphere.
Project Mogul was a classified operation begun by the U.S. government after the end of World War II to spy on the former Soviet Union in order to determine the status of Russian attempts to build nuclear weapons.
Project Mogul was so secret and sensitive that it had a national security rating of “Top Secret A-1,” equal to that of the original Manhattan Project (the effort to build the world’s first atomic bomb).

(Kal K. Korff is a former senior systems analyst at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on the “Star Wars” program and is a recognized expert and pioneer in computer-based multimedia systems who helped develop Apple Computer’s revolutionary HyperCard software — the ancestor to the Internet software Browser).

It was the town of Roswell that eventually benefited from the 1947 “Alien saucer crash” myth.
(And those who continued to propagate the ‘alien saucer crash’ story, i.e., the so-called UFO INDUSTRY)

See the following presentation by Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.

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What really happened in Roswell – – by Kal K. Korff, Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 21.4, July/August 1997:

“In the pro-UFO community, much fanfare has been made over the years about the “dozens” or even “hundreds of eyewitnesses” to the alleged UFO crash near Roswell.

If the near-holy reverence for the number of alleged witnesses surrounding the Roswell affair were limited to just the UFO buffs who have conducted no direct research of their own, this situation might be understandable. However, this is not the case, for the authors of numerous Roswell books play the numbers game as well.

In the pro-UFO book The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell, Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt note the fact that Bill Moore, coauthor of The Roswell Incident (1980), interviewed “more then seventy witnesses who had some knowledge of the [Roswell UFO crash] event.” Indeed, both Friedman and Moore, around the time of the initial publication of The Roswell Incident, boasted that they had interviewed more than “ninety witnesses.”

While these double-digit figures are certainly accurate, the presentation of such a seemingly impressive number of witnesses by themselves, without qualification, is misleading. The relevant issue is not how many witnesses were interviewed, but rather what type of witnesses (i.e., firsthand, secondhand), and how truthful and accurate their statements were.

Unfortunately, a careful reading of Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz’s Roswell Incident reveals that, despite the impressive claim of having “interviewed more than seventy witnesses,” the testimonies of just twenty-five people are presented. Out of these twenty-five, only seven of them are firsthand sources who claim to have seen the alleged saucer debris, and one of these accounts is suspect. Of these seven people, however, only five claim to have actually handled the material personally, and one of them is adamant that it was not from an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

The remainder of the professed “witnesses” cited in The Roswell Incident are either secondhand sources (whose testimonies constitute hearsay) or people who saw no wreckage at all or were never present at the “debris field” during the critical time. In other words, they are not actually witnesses in the true sense of the word.”


A problem with all the (alleged “witnesses”) accounts, charge critics, is they all came about a minimum of 31 years after the events in question, and in many cases were recounted more than 40 years after the fact.

Not only are memories this old of dubious reliability, they were also subject to contamination from other accounts the interviewees may have been exposed to.

The shifting claims of Jesse Marcel, whose suspicion that what he recovered in 1947 was “not of this world” sparked interest in the incident in the first place, cast serious doubt on the reliability of what he claimed to be true.

In (the book) THE ROSWELL INCIDENT (1980 – Charles Berlitz and William Moore), Marcel stated, “Actually, this material may have looked like tinfoil and balsa wood, but the resemblance ended there […] They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris […] The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo.”:

DENVER – UNDATED: Major Jesse Marcel from the Roswell Army Air Field with debris found 75 miles north west of Roswell, NM, in June 1947. The debris has been identified as that of a radar target. The Air Force released a report on 24 June debunking reports of a UFO crash near Roswell, NM, in 1947. (Photo by: UNITED STATES AIR FORCE/AFP/Getty Images)

Timothy Printy (1999 “Roswell 4F; Fabrication, Fumbled Facts and Fables”, Chapt. 6) points out that the material Marcel positively identified as being part of what he recovered is material that skeptics and UFO advocates agree is debris from a balloon device.
After that fact was pointed out to him, Marcel changed his story to say that that material was not what he recovered.

Skeptics like Robert Todd (“Jesse Marcel: Folk Hero or Mythomaniac”, December, 1995) argued that Marcel had a history of embellishment and exaggeration, such as claiming to have been a pilot and having received five Air Medals for shooting down enemy planes, claims that were all found to be false, and skeptics feel that his evolving Roswell story was simply another instance of this tendency to fabricate.


by Kal K. Korff – – Skeptical Inquirer – Vol. 21.4, July/August 1997:

“In my book I publish for the first time excerpts from the military file of Jesse Marcel, excerpts which prove that although Marcel served his country honorably, he was not a credible witness and should not be considered as such.

(Despite this fact, Stanton Friedman and other pro-UFO Roswell authors consider his every word to be gospel truth.) The file is extremely incriminating, for it it clearly demonstrates that Marcel had a penchant for exaggerating things while repeatedly trying to “write himself” into the history books. Ironically, Marcel’s tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military file by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time, in a review of his performance that was signed just after the incident occurred.

Marcel claimed that he personally flew the UFO wreckage to Carswell AFB. He could not have done so, for he was never a pilot. Despite this, Marcel claimed in numerous interviews with Friedman and former National Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt that he was not only a pilot but had managed to shoot down five enemy aircraft!

If so, this would have made Marcel an “ace,” a distinction that certainly would have been noted in his military file. Instead, there’s no record of this or even anything close, and in fact it was General Ramey who specifically noted in Marcel’s file that because he was not a pilot, he would be severely limited in his career opportunities in the Air Force. It’s no wonder, then, that Marcel would later “blame” Ramey for the “UFO coverup” at Roswell.

Marcel claimed he had a bachelor’s degree in physics and even named the universities he attended. However, when I checked with those institutions, I discovered that one of them he never attended, and he never finished his education at the other. Curiously, while Marcel blatantly lied to UFO researchers such as Friedman about his mythical educational background, he never dared make such false claims to the military. Indeed, in signed statements contained in Marcel’s military file, he replies “none” when asked under oath if he had a college degree.

Does this tell us that Marcel knew his gullible UFO peers would never check on him anyway? Or did he even care? We don’t know.

The book also notes that Friedman, even as of this writing, has failed to refute these devastating new revelations about his “star” Roswell witness. Indeed, in what can only be politely called lame rationalization, Friedman counters that military records are notoriously inaccurate. While this is sometimes true, the comment is irrelevant, since throughout Marcel’s file his signature repeatedly appears indicating that he signed off on its contents, certifying them to be true. Until Friedman and other pro-UFO Roswell researchers bother obtaining Marcel’s entire military file, they are in no position to make comments on it, let alone dismiss it.

In addition to disproving Marcel’s testimony, I also systematically dismantle and refute other Roswell “eyewitness” testimonies such as those of British Major Hughie Green, Roswell mortician Glen Dennis, Rueben Anaya, Frankie Rowe, Frank Kaufmann, Jim Ragsdale, and others. In short, no credible evidence from any witness has turned out to present a compelling case that the object was extraterrestrial in origin.”

Also, often erroneously associated with this topic, please read:


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“There are no aliens, no alien abductions and no alien cattle mutilations”, said William “Bill” Cooper, author of BEHOLD A PALE HORSE

“There are no aliens, no alien abductions and no alien cattle mutilations”, said the late William “Bill” Cooper, author of BEHOLD A PALE HORSE in this important 1999 interview:

I basically agree with Bill Cooper on many of the things he said about UFOs and Aliens.

There is no evidence whatsoever (so far) that there are aliens.

UFOs do not represent any conclusive evidence whatsoever of physical ET visitations.

The above all refer to physical reality as we know it.

(However, some say that there could be more to reality than just physical reality in this mysterious universe……I couldn’t agree more. This falls in the realm of religious or spiritual beliefs of each person. I do not discount the religious concept of the existence of spiritual entities, both benevolent or malevolent in nature. Some claim that malevolent, fallen spiritual entities, also described as “demonic”, could be posing as physical aliens and could be deceiving many.)

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Distorted beliefs in UFOs, Aliens and Conspiracies – – the latest example

“Aliens are here on Earth and will take over”, says 82-year old professional Ufologist Stanton Friedman – – March 27, 2017:

(professional Ufologist Stanton Friedman in his heydays)

by Jon Austin, EXPRESS – – March 27, 2017


A scientist has issued a chilling warning that aliens are already here on Earth and are biding their time before unleashing a full reveal.
Stanton Friedman,a nuclear physicist, is convinced there have been multiple visitations of Earth by aliens, who will ultimately quarantine us here on Earth.
The Canadian claimed there “was not a shadow of a doubt” the existence of intelligent aliens was being covered up by global governments as part of a so-called truth embargo.

Mr. Friedman, 82, is a top Ufologist, who has been at the heart of investigations into the mysterious Roswell alleged UFO crash of 1947, after previously working on classified projects for American aerospace corporation McDonnell Douglas.

Speaking to DAILY STAR, he said: “We have enough to prove without a shadow of a doubt that planet Earth is being visited [by aliens].
“This is kept from people because who would want the world in upheaval?
There would be mass panic and distress.
“If they (the aliens) want to make themselves known, it’s easy – they will.”

He said recently declassified CIA files on UFO sightings were all part of the proof.
Mr. Friedman says aliens actually want to prevent humans colonising space and will ultimately quarantine us here for the greater good to prevent mankind travelling.
He said: “I think they are here. I think they are here to quarantine us, keep us from going out there.

“With our track record – we’re evil.”

But Mr. Friedman claims our governments are trying to take advanatage of aliens being here by obtaining their technology to achieve world supremacy.
He said: “The first country to replicate [alien] technology will rule the roost if they can build it.
“It’s political too – the US says ‘are we ready to put out anything if the Russians don’t or the Chinese don’t’.”

Mr. Friedman, who has written extensively on Aliens and UFOs, has described this culture of secrecy as the world’s “Cosmic Watergate” – a reference to the President Nixon cover-up scandal in the 1970s.

He now tours the globe giving talks on his beliefs at universities and conferences.

Some skeptics are not convinced by his arguments, however.
One poster on the forum wrote: “Recently I was looking at some of Friedman’s arguments for UFO’s and against skeptics.

“When he says he debunks the debunkers he makes sweeping generalisations and says skeptics ignore some ‘big’ cases even though many of them were looked at by skeptics.

“So my question is what’s his point.

He only uses old cases that were mostly debunked and just tries to discredit skeptics rather than provide non-speculative evidence.”


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For Americans, Ecuador is the easiest and cheapest place to travel (and even to retire) in South America

from VIVATROPICAL – – 7 of the top places U.S. Expats are living in

Ecuador is the only country in South America where its national currency is the US dollar

39,000 Americans Live in Ecuador.
Ecuador continuously battles nearby Panama for top billing as the world’s best place to retire.
In 2014 it lost by only .1 of a point, according to International Living’s annual survey.
Among the reasons for its consistently high scores are its unrivaled scenery and its extremely affordable cost of living.
A couple can live quite comfortably in most Ecuadorian cities on $1500 to $1800 per month, which includes housing and even luxuries like a part-time maid.
That same feat can be achieved elsewhere in Latin America, but it won’t come with the same quality of life.
Ecuador has historic colonial cities like Quito and Cuenca with their cathedrals and Spanish colonial architecture.
The weather in the mountains is pleasantly mild, and even on the coast the temperature rarely reaches 90 degrees.

August is the hottest month in Quito with an average temperature of 14°C (56°F) and the coldest is February at 13°C (55°F) – – not much difference throughout the year!
There are only really two obvious seasons in the city: dry and wet – – the dry season, summer, runs from June to September and the wet season, winter, is from October to May.

There’s good private health care, particularly in the large cities.
Infrastructure is also improving, with enhancements like a new airport just outside Quito and the widening of the Pan-American Highway.

The country’s economy is stable and growing.
The friendly and welcoming Ecuadorians are thriving, enjoying better lifestyles than previous generations.
(But, best of all is the fact that Ecuador’s national currency is the US dollar).
– – from VIVATROPICAL, 7 of the top places U.S. Expats are living in.


(Click to enlarge above – – popular US dollar coin widely used in Ecuador.
This dollar coin honors Sacagawea, Native American Shoshone guide of the Lewis and Clark expedition.
The image of the Native American resembles the indigenous people of Ecuador. The US dollar is the official currency in Ecuador, the only such country in South America.)

by Jim Wyss / Miami Herald
Mar 26, 2017 – –

QUITO, Ecuador — Busy selling fruits and vegetables on a recent weekday, Luzmila Mita dug into her apron and pulled out a fistful of coins embossed with the image of a Native American woman with a baby strapped to her back.

“I always thought she was one of us,” said Mita, as she looked at the image of Sacagawea, the 18th-century Shoshone woman who was part of the Lewis and Clark expedition. “It took me a long time to know she was from up there.”

“Up there” is the United States, where the U.S. Mint has been producing Sacagawea dollar coins since 2000. And even as the coins have lost their luster in the United States, they’ve been embraced in Ecuador, where they’re preferred over paper money.

On the streets of this small South American nation, which adopted the dollar in 2000, Sacagawea is ubiquitous — and something of a kindred spirit in a country where many have indigenous roots.

About 4,000 miles to the north, in rural Idaho on a recent Wednesday, Randy’L Teton was thrilled to find out that her face was so prominent in Ecuador.

In 1998, when she was still in college, Teton, a member of the Shoshone tribe, was asked by artist Glenna Goodacre to be the model for the young Sacagawea. (Teton still holds the title as the only living model for U.S. currency.)

When the coin was launched in 2000, she spent a year with the U.S. Mint touring the country trying to drive up interest in the coin and Sacagawea’s rich history. But the currency never took off. Vending machines spat them back; cashiers saw them as a hassle.

“American people prefer the dollar bill that they can fold and put into their pants pocket,” said Teton, 40. “Even my own community never really showed the support for (the coin) that it should have.”

Tom Carroll, the general manager of Coins and Valuables in Hollywood, said the dollar coins are thought of more as collectors’ items and keepsakes than walking-around cash.

“You don’t see the Sacagawea coins very often in circulation because dollar coins in general have never really worked out,” he said. “People just don’t respect them.”

But in Ecuador, it’s George Washington who’s spurned.

“Nobody wants to carry around dollar bills,” said David Maji, a taxi driver in Quito with an ashtray full of Sacagawea coins. “If I ever get a bill, I get rid of it as fast as I can.”

He said there was something about the weight of a coin that simply felt “more valuable.”

(Luzmila Mita holds American Sacagawea dollar coins in Quito, Ecuador – – Sacagawea, an 18th-century Shoshone tribeswoman, is seen as something of a kindred spirit in Ecuador….Jim Wyss/Miami Herald/TNS)

Ecuador adopted the U.S. dollar 17 years ago amid an economic meltdown and hyper-devaluation that forced the country then to abandon its beloved Sucre currency.

And while the country does mint some of its own coins, dollars rule the day.

Byron Imbaqo, who works at the Rio Intag cafe in Quito, said he pulls in about $120 a day, but he only gets a paper dollar bill about once a week.

“Nobody wants those things,” he said, “because you think they might be fake.”

One U.S. tourist said he’d never seen the coin until he traveled to Ecuador.

Official figures don’t quite explain the phenomenon. The United States Mint has shipped approximately $149.1 million in dollar coins to Ecuador since 2002 — mostly Sacagawea dollars but also dollar coins from the U.S. presidency series. That means there would be about nine $1 coins per person in the country. By comparison, there are about 6.5 billion dollar coins circulating in the United States, or about 20 per person.

But with so many of the coins in the United States stashed away, hoarded and collected, they’re simply not visible on the street, Carroll said.

Teton has never been to Ecuador, but she said she would love the chance for a Native American from the north to visit Native Americans in the south.

“I would love to share the story of Sacagawea,” she said. “And if you’re telling me that Ecuadoreans are fully utilizing the coin, I’m just so glad someone is using it.”

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Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings expressed in a recent interview

Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings.
The following was my most gratifying interview (on March 18, 2017) because I could very comfortably express my true inner feelings on all these topics….because of the truly laid-back atmosphere created by the excellent host Michael with his truly soothing voice:

(QUOTE from Michael Decon)

EPISODE 25 – – The “Land of Enchantment”:

Tonight’s guest is Norio Hayakawa who has spent decades investigating Area 51 and UFOs.
One of his main focuses has been on the alleged secret base in Dulce, New Mexico, as well as cattle mutilations in that area.
In 1990, he created the Civilian Intelligence News Service which he calls “a citizens’ oversight committee on government accountability, a grassroots watchdog group established to help ensure liberty, justice and freedom of information for all.”

Michael thanks everyone for taking the red pill tonight and reminds everyone that this is a call-in show.

Norio joins the program and right away informs us that on April 18, 2017 he’ll be giving a 90-minute presentation in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, titled “Area 51 in Nevada and Dulce, New MexicoReality vs. Myths“.

You can check it out here:

When Michael asks Norio to give us a little background about himself, Norio says that isn’t important.
He says people’s descriptions of him are inaccurate.
He says he’s the last person to say he’s an expert in this field.

Norio’s interest in this subject stems from his father seeing a green ball of fire in the sky while fishing in Japan in 1947.
This experience had a deep impact on him.
Norio says that he too has seen what he calls “unexplainable lights” in the sky (which he admits could even have prosaic explanations) and cautions us that he’s a strong believer in physical reality.
He explains he was influenced by the late Carl Sagan, especially his last book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Norio claims, “We are living in a society of darkness,” to which Michael agrees.

After the obligatory discussion about the futility of disclosure, talk turns to myths and beliefs and religion.
Norio tells us he was into something called Charismatic Renewal, or the Charismatic Movement.
But then he began to devour books by Jacques Vallee and John A. Keel , which changed his view of the UFO phenomenon.

The topic of UFO conferences comes up.
Norio sees them as entertainment.
He calls it “the UFO industry.”
It’s nothing but a show. There’s nothing scientific about them.

Michael asks Norio his thoughts on the Phoenix Lights incident.

Norio bases everything on hard, tangible, solid evidence, and he sees no proof that UFOs are physical (or that they represent conclusive evidence of physical ET visitations).
He says Vallee never stated that UFO phenomena were real, they just *seem* to be real.
That’s how Norio feels too.
He reminds us that it’s been going on for ages, yet there’s no conclusive physical proof (that it represents physical ET visitations).
He says UFOs are part of nonphysical reality.
Carl Sagan warned us that our beliefs in myths have undermined America’s true pursuit of science.

He’s been to Dulce many times and he’s yet to see evidence of an underground base.
He reminds us that people survive on myths and beliefs.

He now lives near Albuquerque, having relocated from Los Angeles.
He tells us that New Mexico has the highest number of scientists per population of anywhere in the United States.
It’s the fifth largest state but the population is only two million, which provides lots of room to conduct military tests.
It’s the site of the first atomic test in the world and White Sands Missile Range.
He also mentions the paranormal beliefs of the Native Americans in the area.

Norio says that religious people tend to believe in the paranormal and scientific people believe in the physical reality of things.

Talk then turns to abductions and cattle mutilations, which has Norio delving into the psychological aspect of the phenomena.
Until there’s tangible evidence, they’re just stories.

Michael’s question about cattle mutilations causes Norio to bring up 1967’s Operation Plowshare (Project Gasbuggy) possibly interfering with (imagined notions and allegations of) the “alien” presence in Dulce.
He says it’s not about aliens, it’s about a health issue.
He explains how it has affected people and animals and its devastating impact on the environment.

Norio’s website is
There you’ll find (interesting items, including) photos of the “moonscape” areas, around 20 miles from his home in Rio Rancho.
He tells us that New Mexico truly is the “Land of Enchantment” and invites Michael to visit and see for himself.

Michael then asks Norio his opinion on Paul Bennewitz, Richard Doty, Phil Schneider, Bob Lazar, John Lear, Bill Cooper, and Hillary Clinton.


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Amazing “moonscape” areas near Rio Rancho, New Mexico

(CLICK EACH PHOTO FOR ENLARGEMENT IF YOU WISH – – Above, Google satellite image of the Whit Ridges area)

(from BLM)

Just 20 miles from Rio Rancho and tucked away in rugged and scenic country southwest of the community of San Ysidro, New Mexico, is the White Ridge Bike Trails Area.
Just to the west is the newly designated Ojito Wilderness.
Both sites are a short distance from U.S. 550.
This region is known for its geological, cultural and paleontological resources, as well as for its scenic qualities.

(Click and enlarge above photo of one of the two “White Ridge Canyon” areas….courtesy of BLM, photo taken on August 25, 2011)

(Click and enlarge above photo – – White Ridge Canyon…photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 25, 2017…10:15 a.m….temperature 60 degrees Fahrenheit, about 16 degrees Celsius)

The bike trail crosses a landscape of spectacular beauty and exceptional geology, meandering through the Pueblo of Zia, State of New Mexico, and public land managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). ,
BLM has obtained rights-of-way from the Pueblo and the State to provide this biking experience.
Although the Trails have been developed primarily for mountain biking, hikers are welcome on the entire trail system, and one segment is also open to equestrian use.

(Click and enlarge above photo of the first of the “moon rocks” areas….photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 13, 2017)

White Ridge is named for the color of the gypsum that forms much of the mesa and the majority of the bike trails.
Gypsum is a white mineral consisting of hydrated calcium sulfate and is commonly used in cement, plaster and fertilizer.
This gypsum formed as a chemical reaction from evaporation of an ancient water body.
In other words, the Ojito area was once covered with water!
At the western edge of White Ridge, the Tierra Amarilla Anticline forms high, narrow mesa ridges.
This classic example of a plunging anticline is visited by several university field schools each year.

(Click above photo for enlargement, photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 13, 2017….you can see the Cabezon Peak in the distance….this was taken just a minute or two from the West Gravel Parking Lot)

(Click above for enlargement…Cabezon Peak in the distance, photo taken from the White Ridge Canyon area, by Norio Hayakawa, March 25, 2017, 10: 15 a.m….nice weather, temperature 60 degress Fahrenheit, about 16 degrees Celsius)

Fossil remains of rare dinosaurs, plants, and trees from the Jurassic period are located in the Morrison Formation.
Natural erosion processes have exposed the bones of huge dinosaurs and large segments of petrified trees.
These fossils are approximately 150 million years old! The longest dinosaur ever recovered, Seismosaurus, was discovered only a few miles west of the bike trails area in what is now the Ojito Wilderness.
Paleontologists and geologists use this great variety of life to construct geologic timelines and interpret climate changes over the earth’s history. Please leave these objects in place.

(Click and enlarge above, from Google Earth…..”moon rocks”/”moonscape” area)….you can see the East Gravel Parking Lot in the uppermost left side of this satellite image


Although the Trails have been developed primarily for mountain biking, hikers are welcome on the entire trail system, and one segment is also open to equestrian use.


None in the White Ridge Bike Trail Area.
San Ysidro, NM, offers the closest facilities and services – approximately 6 miles.


Traveling northwest toward Cuba on US 550 from Rio Rancho or Bernalillo, the drive is approximately 20 miles.
After passing Zia Pueblo on the right side and just before coming to San Ysidro (about two miles), turn left onto Cabezon Road (County Road 906) at the intersection of Cabezon Road and US 550.
Follow the left fork. Travel 4.4 miles to the first gravel parking lot.
There are two gravel parking lots. The first one is the East Parking Lot.
It is on the south side of the Cabezon Road.
If you drive about half a mile further west on Cabezon Rd., you will get to the second Gravel Parking Lot.
It is the West Parking Lot.
It is on the north side of the Cabezon Road.
It is this parking lot from where you can walk directly to the White Ridge Canyon area to the “viewing spots”. The walk will be about 15 to 20 minutes.
(Click the following for enlargement):

However, if you would like to go first to the “moon rocks” area, then start walking west on Cabezon Road from the East Gravel Parking Lot for a minute or so.
And then start walking into the desert on northwesterly direction.
(In the distance you will already begin to see first of the “moon rocks” areas).
If you would like to get to the heart of the “moonscape” area, you can also take a walking trail just northeast of the East Gravel Parking Lot and keeping walking north and it will turn leftward and will take you to the heart of the “moonscape area”….click the following for enlargement:

However, if you would like to go directly to the White Ridge Canyon areas (a miniature version of “Grand Canyon”), then drive to the West Gravel Parking Lot and park your vehicle.
Start walking northward on the walking/biking trail that is clearly indicated. Keep going and take the left fork. Keep going.
In about 15 minutes, you will get to the amazing viewing areas.


All seasons and hours. Open year round.



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