A hard look at UFO crash claims – – written by researcher Kevin Randle

written by researcher Kevin Randle:

https://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2024/04/david-grusch-and-his-ufo-crashes.html

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About a year ago, David Grusch showed up on the UFO scene talking about UFO crashes.  In the course of his revelations, he mentioned a dozen UFO crashes over the years.  Now, I sometimes think that I’m the leading expert on UFO crashes, having inherited the title from the late Len Stringfield, so I believe can speculate with some expertise on the subject of UFO crashes.  Without Len, we might not even be having this conversation but Len brought the whole subset of UFO crashes into the public arena

For those who are unfamiliar with this, Len began investigating tales of UFO crashes, years before the rest of us climbed on that bandwagon.  He collected the stories with little in the way of critical comment.  His theory was to publish the information, knowing that someone would attempt to verify it. Without that beginning, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today.

That brings us to David Grusch, who “leaked” some information about crashes but not very much.  He mentioned two crashes.  One at Roswell that is so well known now that it was an answer on Jeopardy!   The other was something alleged to have happened in Italy in 1933.  Americans captured the craft from the Italians at the end of the Second World War.

Italian UFO researchers, who investigated the claims about the case some twenty to thirty years ago, concluded that it was a hoax.  It would seem that anyone on the inside, that is the people feeding information to Grush, would have known that. 

Connected to Roswell, is the reported case of a crash of a craft on the Plains of San Agustin in western New Mexico.  This tale was linked to the Roswell UFO crash when Stan Friedman suggested that two alien craft had collided, one falling to earth near Roswell and the other much farther to the west.  The best evidence is that this aspect of the Roswell case is a hoax.

From that point, Grusch has said that he has more information about the other ten, that he had talked to people who had seen some of these craft, but that he hasn’t seen anything himself.  Don Schmitt, Tom Carey, and I can make the same claim.   The difference is that we have named names.  Lots of names.  Some turned out to be charlatans, others just felt they wanted to tell an interesting story, and a few thought of it was a way to financial gain.  But there is a solid core of individuals who were there and who were first-hand witnesses.

My point is that some of us have been around long enough that we can figure out what crashes Grusch has been told about.  In no particular order, here is what I know about this.  The Aztec, New Mexico crash on March 25, 1948, is probably the first UFO crash that gained any sort of national attention.  Frank Scully published a book, BEHIND THE FLYING SAUCERS, that told the tale of the crash.  Though he mentioned a couple of other alleged crashes, he focused on the Aztec event because he had talked to the men who knew all about.

The story was that craft was found near tiny Aztec, was recovered by the military and had contained bodies of the Venusian flight crew.  The story was exposed as a hoax and for those interested in following this down the rabbit hole, I suggest reading Scully’s book, then William Steinman’s compilation of nonsense, UFO Crash at Aztec and finally Scott Ramsey’s THE AZTEC INCIDENT on the pro side but with supporting evidence that is weak to nonexistent.  Ramsey did a good job of running down alleged witnesses, but he didn’t have the opportunity to interview anyone with first-hand knowledge.  In other words, Ramey and his team interviewed people who knew people who said they knew something about the case.  And some of those witnesses said that there had been no crash.

I suspect one of the better tales is that from Kecksburg, Pennsylvania on December 9, 1965.  This case is the bailiwick of Stan Gordon who was on the scene within hours to investigate and has carried out that investigation over the decades.  Working with Leslie Kean, Gordon even sued NASA in an attempt to gather additional information.  However, like so much in this aspect of UFO crashes, there is a plausible alternative.

The Del Rio, Texas, UFO crash has been the subject of an ongoing investigation for decades.  It was accepted by UFO researchers in the beginning because a high ranking, retired Air Force officer, provided an affidavit proving the authenticity of his information.  This crash, misidentified as the El Indio – Guerrero crash was included in the MJ-12 documents, providing even more credibility.  The problem was the high-ranking officer, Robert Willingham was not a high-ranking officer, was not a fighter pilot as claimed and the documentation from both the military records center in St. Louis and the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver did not verify his officer status.  He was, according to the available information, a low-ranking enlisted man who served only thirteen months on active duty.

One of the reports that has received traction in the last couple of years was the story from little San Antonio, New Mexico, about a crash there in 1945.  Dr. Jacques Vallee, along with Paola Harris published a book, TRINITY: THE BEST KEPT SECRET, that provided two eyewitness accounts of the crash and retrieval.    Those witnesses, who were youngsters at the time of crash offered shifting accounts as to the date, the names of other witnesses, and the military recovery operation.  Douglas Dean Johnson has made an in-depth study of that case and has provided amazing evidence that it never happened.

One of what is considered among the first UFO crashes took place in tiny Aurora, Texas in April 1897.  The craft allegedly hit a windmill and exploded.  The local residents found the mangled body of the lone occupant and buried it in the Aurora cemetery.  UFO researchers began to visit Aurora to validate this early case, which was a hoax started by a stringer for a Dallas newspaper.

The case of a crash near Kingman, Arizona in 1953 might be included because the original story was told by a man who seemed credible.  He said, and the evidence proved, that he had worked in the Frenchman Flats area of southern Nevada on a project that dealt with atomic energy.  He also said that he was assigned in some capacity to Project Blue Book.  There is no evidence that this claim is true.

Although originally called Fritz Werner by Raymond Fowler in an article published in 1976, his real name was Arthur Stansel.  He said that he had received a call in May 1953 about some sort of important and classified event.  As evidence of this, Stansel provided two pages from his work calendar that mentioned a special assignment, but no details were given.

He boarded a bus with many others and taken to a site where they were given specific jobs to do, they were not to speak to the others on the bus, and once their task was completed, they were loaded back on the bus, with warnings that they were never to mention this.  In a rather stupid move, an Air Force NCO had a list of names that he called out to ensure that people got to the places they were to work.

Stansel did see a disk that had crashed, and by accident, saw the deceased members of the crew that were not human.  He returned to Frenchman Flats and his regular assignment.

Years later, a woman, Judie Woolcott, said that her late husband had been part of the recovery team, which added credibility to the tale.  She claimed to have a letter he had written to her while he served in Vietnam, providing some detail.  However, she was unable to produce the letter.  She said he had been killed in the Vietnam War.  Her daughter later contacted me, explaining that her mother made up tales and that her father had not died in Vietnam.

For those interested in tales that have some physical evidence, is the case from Ubatuba, Brazil. According to the most popular version, witnesses saw a craft explode in the air, raining debris down on a local beach in September 1957.  Some of it was picked up by an unknown witness who sent it to a radio station reporter.  The material eventually made it to APRO here in the US.  It has been analyzed by several organizations including the Air Force that inadvertently destroyed its sample.

Recently, Jacques Vallee reported that the date was wrong.  The explosion took place much earlier, prior to World War Two.  Vallee’s information contradicts the originally reported tale and Vallee offered nothing in the way of evidence.

According to Len Stringfield, he was contacted by a woman who claimed that her grandfather had been to the scene of a UFO crash near Cape Girardeau, Missouri, in 1941.  She claimed there had been a picture taken of the off-world creatures, but the picture had been lost over the years.  She only saw the picture and heard her father taking about the crash. She saw nothing else.

A man, who saw nothing himself but whose father had been involved also told his story of the alleged crash.  Other than these two people, who apparently saw nothing themselves, no one else has come forward to validate the claim.  There are those who accept the story as real.  

So, this is my speculation about the most likely UFO crashes that David Grusch might have been talking about.  It is basically a collection of highly suspect tales, but these are ones that many of the alleged insiders have talked about in the past.  Some of what Grusch has said suggests that he has meet these people.

Much of what he has said is negated by his claim of inside information about the Italian crash.  If it is a hoax, as it most certainly is, then the insiders feeding him information had no more inside knowledge that I do, or other UFO researchers do.  Our access is through interviews with known participants, research into documents held by various federal and local government agencies, travels to archives and newspaper morgues.

I came to these speculations through reports that I have received from many others in the UFO community.  For example, I was told that Grusch spent time at Skinwalker Ranch.  I’m not going to comment on that particular investigation here.  I will note, however, that it did suggest that Grusch brushed elbows with several once important members of various administrations in Washington, D.C.  And, I know what some of them have advocated in the past, which suggests where some of Grusch’s inside information originated.

The question really boils down to how many of the cases mentioned above are those that Grusch believes were true, and how much of that information did he feed in the various investigations conducted, in secret, to Congress?

The point here is that without more specific information from Grusch and some of those others, we are left with very little evidence.  And if the majority of Grusch’s information is from fraudulent crash reports, why should we waste time chasing down the others.

Unless Grusch can come up with something that is more concrete than he has heard stories of credible people, he is not advancing the case.  In the long run, it will hurt it and no one will remember that I cautioned against acceptance until we had more evidence.  They will only remember how Grusch’s inside information was little more than rumor, speculation, and science fiction.   So, while Grusch might be an honest man whose is beyond reproach, that doesn’t mean that the information he was given is any good.  Just remember you heard it here first.

As a postscript, I will note that by typing the names of these cases in the search engine on my blog, you’ll find additional information.  By typing the names of these cases into Google or other search engines, you’ll find additional information.  Many sites will provide counterpoints to what I have listed here, but I reviewed many of those sites in the creation of my postings and often found them wanting for good sources and the like.

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Please also read: 

ROSWELL, 1947 – – CREATION OF A MODERN MYTH, HOW IT ALL STARTED

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Norio Hayakawa’s CIVILIAN INTELLIGENCE NEWS SERVICE

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