Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings expressed in a recent interview

Area 51, Dulce and “UFOs” – – my true inner feelings.
The following was my most gratifying interview (on March 18, 2017) because I could very comfortably express my true inner feelings on all these topics….because of the truly laid-back atmosphere created by the excellent host Michael with his truly soothing voice:

(QUOTE from Michael Decon)

EPISODE 25 – – The “Land of Enchantment”:

Tonight’s guest is Norio Hayakawa who has spent decades investigating Area 51 and UFOs.
One of his main focuses has been on the alleged secret base in Dulce, New Mexico, as well as cattle mutilations in that area.
In 1990, he created the Civilian Intelligence News Service which he calls “a citizens’ oversight committee on government accountability, a grassroots watchdog group established to help ensure liberty, justice and freedom of information for all.”

Michael thanks everyone for taking the red pill tonight and reminds everyone that this is a call-in show.

Norio joins the program and right away informs us that on April 18, 2017 he’ll be giving a 90-minute presentation in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, titled “Area 51 in Nevada and Dulce, New MexicoReality vs. Myths“.

You can check it out here:

When Michael asks Norio to give us a little background about himself, Norio says that isn’t important.
He says people’s descriptions of him are inaccurate.
He says he’s the last person to say he’s an expert in this field.

Norio’s interest in this subject stems from his father seeing a green ball of fire in the sky while fishing in Japan in 1947.
This experience had a deep impact on him.
Norio says that he too has seen what he calls “unexplainable lights” in the sky (which he admits could even have prosaic explanations) and cautions us that he’s a strong believer in physical reality.
He explains he was influenced by the late Carl Sagan, especially his last book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Norio claims, “We are living in a society of darkness,” to which Michael agrees.

After the obligatory discussion about the futility of disclosure, talk turns to myths and beliefs and religion.
Norio tells us he was into something called Charismatic Renewal, or the Charismatic Movement.
But then he began to devour books by Jacques Vallee and John A. Keel , which changed his view of the UFO phenomenon.

The topic of UFO conferences comes up.
Norio sees them as entertainment.
He calls it “the UFO industry.”
It’s nothing but a show. There’s nothing scientific about them.

Michael asks Norio his thoughts on the Phoenix Lights incident.

Norio bases everything on hard, tangible, solid evidence, and he sees no proof that UFOs are physical (or that they represent conclusive evidence of physical ET visitations).
He says Vallee never stated that UFO phenomena were real, they just *seem* to be real.
That’s how Norio feels too.
He reminds us that it’s been going on for ages, yet there’s no conclusive physical proof (that it represents physical ET visitations).
He says UFOs are part of nonphysical reality.
Carl Sagan warned us that our beliefs in myths have undermined America’s true pursuit of science.

He’s been to Dulce many times and he’s yet to see evidence of an underground base.
He reminds us that people survive on myths and beliefs.

He now lives near Albuquerque, having relocated from Los Angeles.
He tells us that New Mexico has the highest number of scientists per population of anywhere in the United States.
It’s the fifth largest state but the population is only two million, which provides lots of room to conduct military tests.
It’s the site of the first atomic test in the world and White Sands Missile Range.
He also mentions the paranormal beliefs of the Native Americans in the area.

Norio says that religious people tend to believe in the paranormal and scientific people believe in the physical reality of things.

Talk then turns to abductions and cattle mutilations, which has Norio delving into the psychological aspect of the phenomena.
Until there’s tangible evidence, they’re just stories.

Michael’s question about cattle mutilations causes Norio to bring up 1967’s Operation Plowshare (Project Gasbuggy) possibly interfering with (imagined notions and allegations of) the “alien” presence in Dulce.
He says it’s not about aliens, it’s about a health issue.
He explains how it has affected people and animals and its devastating impact on the environment.

Norio’s website is
There you’ll find (interesting items, including) photos of the “moonscape” areas, around 20 miles from his home in Rio Rancho.
He tells us that New Mexico truly is the “Land of Enchantment” and invites Michael to visit and see for himself.

Michael then asks Norio his opinion on Paul Bennewitz, Richard Doty, Phil Schneider, Bob Lazar, John Lear, Bill Cooper, and Hillary Clinton.


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Amazing “moonscape” areas near Rio Rancho, New Mexico

(Click to enlarge above, from Google Earth)

(from BLM)

Just 20 miles from Rio Rancho and tucked away in rugged and scenic country southwest of the community of San Ysidro, New Mexico, is the White Ridge Bike Trails Area.
Just to the west is the newly designated Ojito Wilderness.
Both sites are a short distance from U.S. 550.
This region is known for its geological, cultural and paleontological resources, as well as for its scenic qualities.

(Click and enlarge above photo of one of the two “White Ridge Canyon” areas….courtesy of BLM, photo taken on August 25, 2011)

(Click and enlarge above photo – – White Ridge Canyon…photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 25, 2017…10:15 a.m….temperature 60 degrees Fahrenheit, about 16 degrees Celsius)

The bike trail crosses a landscape of spectacular beauty and exceptional geology, meandering through the Pueblo of Zia, State of New Mexico, and public land managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). ,
BLM has obtained rights-of-way from the Pueblo and the State to provide this biking experience.
Although the Trails have been developed primarily for mountain biking, hikers are welcome on the entire trail system, and one segment is also open to equestrian use.

(Click and enlarge above photo of the first of the “moon rocks” areas….photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 13, 2017)

White Ridge is named for the color of the gypsum that forms much of the mesa and the majority of the bike trails.
Gypsum is a white mineral consisting of hydrated calcium sulfate and is commonly used in cement, plaster and fertilizer.
This gypsum formed as a chemical reaction from evaporation of an ancient water body.
In other words, the Ojito area was once covered with water!
At the western edge of White Ridge, the Tierra Amarilla Anticline forms high, narrow mesa ridges.
This classic example of a plunging anticline is visited by several university field schools each year.

(Click above photo for enlargement, photo taken by Norio Hayakawa on March 13, 2017….you can see the Cabezon Peak in the distance….this was taken just a minute or two from the West Gravel Parking Lot)

(Click above for enlargement…Cabezon Peak in the distance, photo taken from the White Ridge Canyon area, by Norio Hayakawa, March 25, 2017, 10: 15 a.m….nice weather, temperature 60 degress Fahrenheit, about 16 degrees Celsius)

Fossil remains of rare dinosaurs, plants, and trees from the Jurassic period are located in the Morrison Formation.
Natural erosion processes have exposed the bones of huge dinosaurs and large segments of petrified trees.
These fossils are approximately 150 million years old! The longest dinosaur ever recovered, Seismosaurus, was discovered only a few miles west of the bike trails area in what is now the Ojito Wilderness.
Paleontologists and geologists use this great variety of life to construct geologic timelines and interpret climate changes over the earth’s history. Please leave these objects in place.

(Click and enlarge above, from Google Earth…..”moon rocks”/”moonscape” area)….you can see the East Gravel Parking Lot in the uppermost left side of this satellite image


Although the Trails have been developed primarily for mountain biking, hikers are welcome on the entire trail system, and one segment is also open to equestrian use.


None in the White Ridge Bike Trail Area.
San Ysidro, NM, offers the closest facilities and services – approximately 6 miles.


Traveling northwest toward Cuba on US 550 from Rio Rancho or Bernalillo, the drive is approximately 20 miles.
After passing Zia Pueblo on the right side and just before coming to San Ysidro (about two miles), turn left onto Cabezon Road (County Road 906) at the intersection of Cabezon Road and US 550.
Follow the left fork. Travel 4.4 miles to the first gravel parking lot.
There are two gravel parking lots. The first one is the East Parking Lot.
It is on the south side of the Cabezon Road.
If you drive about half a mile further west on Cabezon Rd., you will get to the second Gravel Parking Lot.
It is the West Parking Lot.
It is on the north side of the Cabezon Road.
It is this parking lot from where you can walk directly to the White Ridge Canyon area to the “viewing spots”. The walk will be about 15 to 20 minutes.
(Click the following for enlargement):

However, if you would like to go first to the “moon rocks” area, then start walking west on Cabezon Road from the East Gravel Parking Lot for a minute or so.
And then start walking into the desert on northwesterly direction.
(In the distance you will already begin to see first of the “moon rocks” areas).
If you would like to get to the heart of the “moonscape” area, you can also take a walking trail just northeast of the East Gravel Parking Lot and keeping walking north and it will turn leftward and will take you to the heart of the “moonscape area”….click the following for enlargement:

However, if you would like to go directly to the White Ridge Canyon areas (a miniature version of “Grand Canyon”), then drive to the West Gravel Parking Lot and park your vehicle.
Start walking northward on the walking/biking trail that is clearly indicated. Keep going and take the left fork. Keep going.
In about 15 minutes, you will get to the amazing viewing areas.


All seasons and hours. Open year round.



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Carl Sagan explained why aliens have not visited us yet

Carl Sagan explained why aliens have not visited us yet – – see the following interview:

by Jesus Diaz of SPOID – – July 2, 2014


If all the reports of UFO sightings are real, the Earth must be the most popular destination in the Universe.
Obviously, that’s a ridiculous anthropocentric notion, as Dr. Carl Sagan explained in the above 1966 CBS documentary, UFO: Friend, Foe or Fantasy, hosted by Walter Cronkite.

I like his thoughts connecting the flying saucer myths with religion.
But like he said in PALE BLUE DOT, help is not coming from elsewhere.

Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark.
In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand.

The words of Walter Cronkite at the end of the documentary are spot on too. Thousands of scientists, astronomers, and normal people are scrutinizing the skies constantly.
The possibility of a government coverup of any potential contact is ridiculous at this point.
When the contact with an alien civilization really happens, we will all know.


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RQ-170 stealth spy drone appears at Vandenberg Air Force Base


(Click above for enlargement)

by Tyler Rogoway, THE WARZONE — March 3, 2017


The RQ-170 Sentinel remains cloaked in mystery a decade after it was first photographed and nearly six years after the Skunk Works-built flying-wing drone spied on Osama Bin Laden’s compound and later fell into the hands of the Iranian government.

In recent years, Sentinels have been photographed and filmed just a handful of times flying in and out of Creech AFB, the USAF’s master unmanned aircraft base located north of Las Vegas.

Although the RQ-170 may still have some presence at shadowy Tonopah Test Range Airport, where the 30th Reconnaissance Squadron was stood up to fly the type in secrecy in 2005, the unit is thought to have moved their operations from the remote base to Creech AFB in recent years.

The WAR ZONE’s own Joseph Trevithick learned, via an official USAF document, that the 30th RS had also activated a detachment in 2011 at Vandenberg AFB, of all places.
Now, years after this action had supposedly occurred, the first photographic proof of the RQ-170’s presence at Vandenberg is shown below.


(Click above for enlargement)

The images were snapped by photographer Matt Hartman while visiting the base to capture the launch of a classified reconnaissance satellite (NROL-79).
His images show an RQ-170 like we have never seen before, sporting a large air data boom, a strange hodgepodge of black and white paneling, as well as some other features not seen in prior RQ-170 photos.

These include an air inlet on the right-rear underside of the aircraft and what appear to be doors, either for access or otherwise, outboard of the aircraft’s shrouded sensor turret and what is likely a synthetic aperture radar housing that protrudes down the drone’s centerline.

Some highly visible air-data sensors are also seen embedded into the drone’s leading edge, and what appear to be some sort of speed-brake like units towards the outer edges of the Sentinel’s wings.

As for the question of whether we are seeing the oldest, or newest evolution of the RQ-170 design, that is not clear, but we can say with certainty that this particular RQ-170 is used for testing purposes.

Vandenberg AFB, nestled along the southern California coastline between Santa Maria and Santa Barbara, is the USAF’s premier ballistic missile test and rocket launch facility, and is not widely known for supporting fixed-wing aircraft programs.
The base had been the home of the X-37B miniature spaceplane until recently, when the program moved to Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
Before that the RQ-4 Global Hawk used the base for testing, with the runway’s somewhat even slope and close proximity to the sea acting as a proving ground before the high-altitude, long-endurance unmanned aircraft deployed to Guam for the first time.
But beyond this, Vandenberg AFB has no aircraft permanently assigned to it.
There is just one large hangar and some smaller support buildings near the base’s massive runway.


To the southwest, the old Orbiter Processing Facility that was built to support the failed military Space Shuttle program and its co-located SLC-6 launch complex is connected to the runway via a long taxiway.
It is unknown what this facility is used for today, but it appears to feature high security and is still active, judging from satellite photos.


The old orbiter processing facility (also known as the orbiter maintenance and checkout facility) has remained busy long after the Space Shuttle’s fate at Vandenberg was sealed.
Vandenberg’s 15,000-foot runway is mainly used to support aerial transports moving missile and rocket material to and from the installation, and to provide a practice runway for military aviation units based all around California.

A 2011 report noted that the airfield had just 4,000 operations a year, a tiny number compared to other USAF installations.
But those operations are condensed largely within a nine hour timeframe each day, as the field is open from 8AM to 5PM and closed on weekends. It is possible that the base opens up for limited operations at other hours to support testing and classified programs, and there have been times when the base’s large runway is restricted even for transient military traffic.

So why base a detachment of RQ-170s at Vandenberg?

First off, the base is relatively secluded, has high security, and as mentioned earlier, the RQ-170 would not have to compete with many other aircraft based there for runway time.

Additionally, it gives incredible access to the Navy’s massive Pacific Range complex, including certain Channel Islands that are used exclusively for military training and weapons development.


(Click above for enlargement)

For instance, one of the RQ-170’s missions is to provide overwatch, including streaming video to commanders (and possibly communications relay), for special operations units operating in contested territory.

Members of SEAL Team Six supposedly had an RQ-170 overhead during Operation Neptune Spear—the mission to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden.
One of the SEALs’ most elaborate and remote training grounds—one that also blends water and land operations—is located on the northern tip of San Clemente Island .
San Nicolas Island hosts live weapons tests and an active bombing range.
The island is also equipped with multiple threat emitters that mimic enemy radar and electronic warfare systems. The RQ-170 is known to have worked with the B-2 and other assets when it comes to targeting and bomb damage assessment.
RQ-170s could use these facilities to develop and hone their tactics and interoperational capabilities.
But above all else, these vast military operating areas located right off Vandenberg’s coast provide a safe and secure place for experimenting with new technologies without the risk of an aircraft crashing to the ground in a populated area, something that the RQ-170 may have already done in the past.

Just like the Global Hawk, the RQ-170 is known to have been deployed to Guam, and other potential operating locations could take the aircraft over water.
Testing and training to operate the Sentinel in a similar maritime environment that it could face operationally isn’t just prudent, but it may also be necessary.
In fact, the RQ-170, with its electo-optical sensors and what most experts think is a highly sensitive AESA-based synthetic aperture radar (like the ASQ-236), could make the aircraft a potent targeting and surveillance node in an anti-access maritime and/or littoral combat environment.

Proving that the RQ-170’s talents can be applied to the surface warfare realm would require that the aircraft have access to such an environment, and the middle of the Nevada desert surely does not offer that kind of an opportunity, but Vandenberg AFB certainly does.

Don’t be surprised if more unmanned aircraft testing, development and training makes its way to Vandenberg in the future, especially if the USAF ever brings the swarming UCAV revolution into the light.

There is plenty of room along the runway at Vandenberg to build new ramp space, hangars and other facilities if they are required.
With the RQ-4, X-37B and now the RQ-170 having used the site for various parts of their development, it only makes sense that more of the USAF’s most sophisticated drones, both known and unknown, will call the site home at some point in time.

In fact, the Vandenberg is currently in the running to house a wing of MQ-9 Reaper drones, which would see aircraft permanently assigned to installation.
This would kickstart facilities expansion uniquely tailored to unmanned aircraft mission, and would give the base a whole new and exciting mission as passes its 60th year of operations.



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F-35 scores impressive 15:1 kill ratio at Red Flag Exercises – – Feb. 7, 2017


by Jay Bennett, PM – – February 7, 2017


Red Flag Exercises at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada is considered one of the most realistic and challenging aviation warfare exercises, and pilots from this year’s event say the Air Force’s F-35A exceeded expectations by dominating the air space and improving the lethality of other legacy aircraft.

It’s stellar performance is a major victory for a war plane that’s been criticized for its high costs and plagued with several development setbacks.

Running from January 23 to February 10, this year’s Red Flag involves more threats to pilots than ever before, including surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), radar jamming equipment, and an increased number of red air, or mock enemy aircraft.
Against the ramped-up threats, the F-35A only lost one aircraft for every 15 aggressors killed, according to AVIATION WEEK.

The F-35 Lightning II‘s advanced avionics software was the star of the show, as multiple F-35s successfully compiled data into a detailed layout of the battlefield with each individual threat pinpointed.

The stealthy aircraft could then slip into weak spots in the defensive layout and take out SAM targets, opening up the space for follow-on forces of legacy fighters.
Even when the F-35s ran out of munitions, F-22 and fourth-generation fighter pilots wanted the aircraft to remain in the combat zone, soaking up data and porting target info to the older fighters.

“Before where we would have one advanced threat and we would put everything we had—F-16s, F-15s, F-18s, missiles—we would shoot everything we had at that one threat just to take it out,” Lt. Col. George Watkins, 34th Fighter Squadron commander, told AVIATION WEEK. “Now we are seeing three or four of those threats at a time.”

The F-35 and the F-22 Raptor pair up to make a particularly deadly team, according to the pilots.
The Raptor uses its advanced air maneuverability to shield the F-35 from airborne threats while the F-35 relays data to the F-22 to paint a clear picture of the battlefield.
Once the duo of fifth-generation fighters take out an initial wave of ground and air targets, F-18s, F-16s, and F-15s bring up the rear to provide support, all receiving target data from the F-35s in the field.

When you pair the F-22 and the F-35 together with the fourth-generation strikers behind us, we’re really able to dominate the air space over the Nellis test and training range,” Watkins told AVIATION WEEK.


F-35 versus Russian F-16 top gun duel win at Red Flag 2017

Red Flag 2017 F-22 + F-35 Team Stealth

F-35 scores 20:1 kill ratio at Red Flag 17-1

Red Flag 17-1 extended compilation

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The UFO Industry – – the show must go on!! – – and that includes proverbial UFO “conferences”


(poster from the Roswell Festival and Roswell UFO Conferences – – primarily all about making money)

THE UFO INDUSTRY….THE SHOW MUST GO ON (written by my colleague, the late Tomas Scolarici):

Those who engage in the ufological circus.


“Are these self proclaimed experts in Unidentified Flying Objects mad?
No, I don’t think so, at least when we talk about the Easy Money Ufologists.
Let me analyze the process of “insanity” in the career of self proclaimed experts in UFOs, Extraterrestrials, conspiracy theories and similar tricks of the UFO Industry.

Let’s consider an intelligent individual who “discovers” the UFO myth, and in the beginning believes in the UFO-ET hypothesis.
Now, some of these new ufologists not only believe in the Flying Saucers folklore but also think in the possibility of making some money with it (and this includes some self-claimed UFO “abductees”).
So, after reading some books written for his/her predecessors in the ufological pseudo-science and do some google, they try their hand with a book, a blog or lectures about UFOs and related Memes.

After some time, the new professional ufologists learn that some things sell more than others, and this market law has nothing to do with truth.
When this happens the self proclaimed researchers realize that they are faced with a serious dilemma:
To leave a subculture run by charlatans, crooks and maniacs, or engage in the despicable game.

Of course, if the neo-ufologists are sane, they have learned already that practically the whole UFO mythology is a great quackery.
Just fiction sold as truth.
Repeated unsubstantiated non-events, nonexistent sources, and total disrespect for those who want to believe.

They must choose to leave or remain in the “show”.
The future decision is based on personal ethics … or lack of ethics.


If they remain in the ufological circus, perhaps they can make some easy money, but there are prices to pay.
Cognitive dissonance is one of the consequences of this self-denial.
Someone should write about the sad personal stories of many who chose to remain in the company of charlatans and hoaxsters.


The Internet has revolutionized how information as well as misinformation can be accessed instantaneously.

For many gullible folks among a segment of the society (and there are many such folks in the so-called UFO Community), the Internet has become a cesspool of totally unfounded “facts” created by hucksters and hoaxsters so much so that even college-educated folks seem to fall into it.

Such hucksters and hoaxsters have become so skillful in their “art forms” that it is becoming harder and harder for many folks to distinguish what is true information and what is misinformation.

Also add to all this those who are propagating the UFO Industry, i.e., some authors, some UFO talk show hosts and many UFO Conference promoters.

Here is how it works.
Conference promoters sell booths to many vendors (the vast majority of the vendors are propagators of the so-called New Age movement and are vendors of New Age books and trinkets such as crystals, miniature pyramids, fortune telling paraphernalia, New Age DVDs, ad nausem).
Conference speakers (not only UFO “experts” but also some self-claimed “abductees” and “experiencers”) in turn, get their own booths in order to sell their books (by and large dubiously “substantiated” UFO books), DVDs, etc. etc. ad nausem).
It’s basically all about selling and selling.
This is why it is called the UFO INDUSTRY.



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